I’m sure you’ve all heard, gays now have the right to marry in New York. As someone who has been good friends with a gay person for a long time, I am very happy to hear that. But I’ll never really understand why gay marriage is an issue at all. Especially in this day and age. I remember my sophomore year of college I was sitting in the dining hall for dinner with a group of friends. And I heard one of my friends (except she was never really my friend) say that she doesn’t think gays should be able to get married. I sat there fuming for the rest of dinner. I wish I had said something to her. All I could think was why, why, whyyy??? I also thought plenty of other things about her, which I won’t actually repeat in this blog.
I know all the reasons that conservatives give for why gays shouldn’t be able to marry: The Bible says so (okay, I’m confused…is the Bible our new Constitution?? Doesn’t our Constitution say equal rights for all? Oh, but the Bible says that marriage is between a man and a woman, so let’s follow that instead of the law of our land…yeah, okay), gay marriage undermines the traditional family, gays can’t raise children, and if we lets gays marry then people will start fighting for the right to marry cows…and rhinos…and dead people.
It’s way too tiresome to point out the flaws in each of those arguments. But I do want to say that I am baffled as to why any rational person would believe them. And especially a young person like the girl in the dining hall. MOST young people are becoming more tolerant of the rights of gay people. And I think it’s because we understand best that love is love. Period.
Love comes in many shapes, many colors, many forms. Love is pure, and it is inherently good. There is so much hatred and evil in this world. But true love is so powerful. We should be FIGHTING for love. But we are PREVENTING gays from expressing that love by denying them the right to marry.
Again, why, why, whyyy??? To love and be loved is one of the greatest things in this world. Love is what keeps us going. It is what makes life worth while. Why can’t we let gays love openly, through marriage? Is that really so bad? Will it really lead to an apocalypse? Will God really start throwing down lightning spears at us and flood the earth with lava because we are allowing two people who love each other and who happen to be of the same sex get married?
I just don’t get it - why it’s such a big deal. Don’t we have bigger problems? There are so many people in our own country who are starving. There are so many abused children. There is so much violence. And we’re getting our panties in a bunch over whether gays should be able to marry or not? That’s pathetic.
If two people love each other and want to get married, let them. It’s that simple. Stop the drama show over the fact that they are of the same sex.
And finally, this is long overdue, but to the girl that I mentioned above: your statement disgusted me. I think you are narrow-minded and cruel for thinking such a thing. Get off your high horse and start respecting people more. You’ve obviously never had a real gay friend in your life. Because if you had, you’d know that they are human, just like everybody else. And they deserve certain rights, just like everybody else. I feel so sorry that my gay friend has to put up with cold-hearted…jerks (to put it NICELY), like you.
A Producer in Progress
June 26, 2011
“…love is love. Period.”
JPW
June 26, 2011
Grace:
The person in the dining hall had a different opinion that yours. You should respectfully disagree. Instead you attacked her as “close mined” and a “jerk”. Typical liberal.
What a great country we have, I have no problem with GAYS!!!! This may surprise you!!! I happened to believe it is biological; and I feel sorry for gays if they have to hide their homosexuality. Even this “close minded” conservative would love his son or daughter the same.
But, to answer your questions, in many states, the law states that marriage is between a MAN and a WOMEN. Its the legal definition. So just as I have to tolerate the injustice of Row vs Wade; gays needs to accept this law. If and when the law in overturned or changed… so be it.
I am just glad that liberals honor marriage as a commitment between two people. Frankly, I think that is a conservative mind frame.
But, you showed a great amount of “intolerance” towards someone with a different opinion than your own. If someone interpretation of marriage is different than your own, you should accepted it….. your intolerance is “close minded” not her view of marriage.
short little rebel
July 1, 2011
I agree JPW. And she finds it ‘too tiring’ to find flaw in her opposition’s arguments. I posted my opposition to gay marriage & gay adoption on her other silly article and her little college buddies started throwing names around like they were going out of style. Not ONE of them addressed my arguments. Because if they actually answered them, then their arguments will reveal the selfish, self serving motives behind their beliefs.
Grace
June 26, 2011
Okay all I can do is laugh at this point. You’re telling me that saying she is close-minded is attacking her and is “typically liberal”. What the HELL do you think YOU’VE been doing the past few days? You haven’t been attacking me and every effing person who has commented on this blog with a different opinion than yours??? OHHHH MY GOD. All I can do is laugh. Oh and gays need to just accept the law?? Have you never heard of progress?? Should blacks just have “accepted” that they were being enslaved because it was the law. Wow. Just wow.
short little rebel
July 1, 2011
Earth to Grace, Earth to Grace: can you just stop laughing for one minute? Please, get a grip. Can we get through a discussion without hysterics? Yes? Good.
Gay relationships are fully protected through civil unions. Are you aware of what protection these laws provide? look it up. But gays are not happy with it. they need the word marriage. they also want to adopt babies- committing the largest human experiment in human history.
Love is love? Everyone is equal? Babies are exactly EQUAL to the Adults. They, too, have rights. Not once did you address them. That is because you are still a baby yourself. You only see the adult side of the equation. Kids, because they do not have the ability to defend themselves have special protections, under the LAW. As they should. And not some Biblical law- but under secular law.
Did you know that the Constitution you are calling on actually uses, as it BASIS, the argument that BECAUSE we are all created equal, UNDER GOD, we each are born with inalienable rights? Yes, God is the whole point behind the equal rights. You claim that you do your research. How could you not know that? Did you also know that there is no such thing as ‘separation of church & state”? Bet you didn’t. Go read the documents, little girl. Then come back with a real position. So far, you lack the courage to do so.
JPW
June 26, 2011
Grace:
As usual you missed the point. Liberals CLAIM they are “tolerant” which, of course, equates to being “open minded”; but, yet, a conservative is “closed minded” because they are considered “intolerant” if they believe in conservative views.
Yet, the truth is, you are only “tolerant” of people that think your SAME WAY. In fact, you are not “tolerant” whatsoever. You are very “intolerant” just like us “closed minded” conservative. We are the same!!!! Gotta luv it!!!
I am a conservative; and, I openly admit that I am offended by liberal ideology. Therefore, I don’t hide my “intolerance”, I am proud of it. So does that make me “closed minded” or is just a different perspective.
All my responses to your blog stem from the fact that I do NOT worship the liberal agenda. You liberals are VERY VERY hypocritical. And liberals are very very very mean and nasty. Just look at your responses to those you disagree with…. you are total intolerant…… shame on you!!!
Again, when you grow up, many of your view will “evolve”. Some day, you will get married (conservative idea based in RELIGION) you will have kids (with a man), own a home (with a man), and work hard to send your children to a good school that is not impacted by non-English speaking illegal immigrants (this is where you call me a racist too). Or you will choose not have children (i.e. have an abortion); and, thereby continue to live in the “bubble” that I call LIBERALISM!!!!
Those of us that have a full time job work hard to support our family, pay the majority of taxes to support the rest of the US, and love this country for providing such great opportunity!!!! I love this country because it allows people like you to openly support and debate these issue no matter how misguided.
Luv JPW
Grace
June 26, 2011
I am not intolerant of other views. I allow you to comment here as much as you’d like, right? If I were intolerant, I’d just delete everything you write. I do however, disagree with what you say. There is a difference between intolerance and disagreement.
Anyway, when people describe liberals as “tolerant”, it has nothing to do with how liberals treat those who disagree with them. It has to do with how they treat minorities, such as gays and racial minorities and immigrants. Liberals believe those groups should have more rights, hence why they are “tolerant”, but conservatives tend to restrict the rights of those groups, hence being “intolerant”.
Finally, please don’t respond with “luv”. It makes me want to throw up.
short little rebel
July 1, 2011
“It has to do with how they treat minorities, such as gays and racial minorities and immigrants. Liberals believe those groups should have more rights, hence why they are “tolerant”, but conservatives tend to restrict the rights of those groups, hence being “intolerant”.”
THAT is the definition of being tolerant? That is like your version of respect on your last post. I believe you justified name calling on your part because that wasn’t part of your idea of ‘respect’?
You need to get some more schooling, little girl. Tolerant and respect have definitions. you don’t get to change them to suit your bad behavior.
Why do these groups deserve MORE rights? Are they handicapped somehow? You are ARROGANT to the nth degree. Because you are white and an American citizen, then YOU can make it ok. But these poor, poor little black people are so dumb, so incapably, so weak that they need a little extra help. Because only WHITE people can handle life in America. Cause we are just… well…. BETTER.
Provide proof that conservatives what to to ‘restrict’ the ‘rights’ of these people. There is a Bill of Rights that outlines every citizen’s rights. Please indicate and prove how conservatives deny any of them to anyone.
Toots, put your money where your mouth is. Or just shut it.
short little rebel
July 1, 2011
“I am not intolerant of other views. I allow you to comment here as much as you’d like, right?”
Oh! you are too kind!
Let’s see how long that lasts, little girl.
Anonymous
June 26, 2011
Throw up or grow up? Because you need to grow up. That was one of your most “nuanced” replies yet. My views on this blog are that of a “minority”; hence you should be much more “tolerant.”
My family owns a large construction company; and my white conservative grandfather hire many many many LEGAL Mexican immigrants. He created good jobs for them and paid high wages (that are now depressed wages due to the ILLEGAL immigrants). He respected every one of his workers no matter what nationality.
I live in LA; and I don’t know of anywhere that an openly gay couple can’t go or be openly gay. I have never witness any “intolerance” towards gay people; nor would I tolerate it.
I have many asian, black, mexican friends, so I don’t tolerate racist comments.
Yet? you and your liberal friends seem to have a monopoly on the word “tolerance.” I reject that my luv. Conservatives are much more tolerant than you will ever know or care or allow yourself to know.
However, we are not socialist, there will always be economic classes and opportunity for those that work hard, and we do believe in the rights of the “fetus”… so we do have different views… that does NOT mean liberals are the only “tolerant” people in this world.
Most liberals I know are very nasty, mean and intolerant… and have a chip on their shoulder like you…
JPW
short little rebel
July 1, 2011
ha, ha! good one JPW! We are minorities here and deserve MORE protection! yea! yea! You need to even NICER to us conservatives on your liberal blog, cause we clearly can’t handle life on our own….
short little rebel
July 1, 2011
JPW, please read my Suffer with Me article about partial birth and late term abortion. I write for two other blogs besides mine: Constitution club & rants-n-rages. You are welcome to discuss, with adults, the issues of the day.
People like Grace and her college buddies could care less that little babies, fully formed, have their arms and legs systematically pulled off their bodies, their stomachs pinched off and then their little heads squished in the torturous process of late term abortion.
They also could care less that a full term baby can be partially delivered, legs first and then stopped, with it’s head still lodged in its ‘mother’s’ vagina and then have their brains mercilessly stirred by a long needle inserted by the ‘doctor’.
Their ‘LOVE’ is for gays, illegals, and anything else nasty they can dream up.
Why, you might wonder? Because they need to rebel. They have no purpose in life. They are vacant. They don’t work. They live off their parents. Grace’s dad bugged out on her as a little girl and so she suffers from deep insecurity. They are, in essence, looking for attention and validation. They wish to ‘LEAD’ when they can not even do their homework.
‘Coolness’ is all they care about. God isn’t cool. Jesus isn’t cool. Old Time values- the ‘old verities’ of William Faulkner aren’t cool. Morality is not cool. Gotta be on the ‘EDGE’, you know, JPW?
Otherwise, their miserable little lives might sink into the grey ooz of nothingness. With just them there.
Anonymous
June 26, 2011
Before you comment on someone else’s views who you disagree with, whether you like them or not, you should still respect their opinion. Take some of your own advice and understand that people have different views. There is no need to personally attack your friends, or even people you don’t like, and certainly no need to attack them as a person.
Grace
June 26, 2011
Dear….Anonymous,
I respect the right of anyone to EXPRESS their opinions. The girl that I referred to in this post had every right to say what she did. But it offended me, a lot. Because the gay person that I am friends with is extremely close to my heart. I have personally witnessed the torment he went through, simply for being gay. And it breaks my heart to think there are people out there who believe he shouldn’t have the same rights that I do. When I said the girl was narrow-minded and cruel, that was not a PERSONAL attack, but an attack on her views and what those views reflects about her character. Had I commented on her appearance or how she dresses, etc. THAT would be a personal attack. But I would never do that. At least not in a public blog.
Anonymous
June 26, 2011
Just because someone is against gay marriage does not make them cruel and narrow-minded about gay people, or humanity in general. And by calling someone cruel, that is in fact a personal attack, and you should watch what you say, public or private. Especially when you claim that people have the same rights. Again, read your blog, and take some tips from it if that is how you feel.
Grace
June 26, 2011
Well I disagree, I think that if you don’t support gay marriage it does make you narrow-minded, and cruel in the sense that you don’t view all humans as equal. Imagine if my gay friend met that girl and she told him to his face that because he is GAY he doesn’t deserve the same rights as herself and anyone else who is not gay. Isn’t that just a little cruel of her? Once again, that is NOT a personal attack, it is perceiving her through her actions. Just like when a man rapes a woman, you describe him as “cruel” because of his actions. Anyway, if you still disagree with me, then so be it. I’m not trying to change your mind, just expressing how I feel.
short little rebel
July 1, 2011
Hey JPW, you better be careful! She quoted you as one of her ‘intolerant’ readers in another article.
So many liberals are inconsistent. They love to throw around their ‘high’ ideals, make accusations, and then REFUSE to back them. They also love to do what I call, ‘flouncing out of the room’. You know, because we are too STUPID to talk to. Or because it is too TIRING to respond to all our stupid, racist, homophobic, bigoted diatribes!
The only reason I am commenting on this blog is because I saw her silly ‘respect’ articles on WordPress. When I discovered that she was a college kid, I was curious as to what she and her friends talk about. What a disappointment! They cannot reason. They will not make an argument in defense of their points. But they WILL name call. And they will say, “Your beliefs are outdated and……UNACCEPTABLE!”
The intellectual cowardliness in these so called college kids reveals not only spinelessness, but a deep layer of ignorance.
Anonymous
June 26, 2011
Question: where do you get your facts? Do you pull them out of a cows ass? “everyone is becoming more supportive of gay marriage”. What a bunch of garbage. Have you ever been down south? ZERO PATIENCE for this heathen lifestyle.
As for the rest of this meaningless and pointless drivel; why are you bashing someone who you met in the dining hall as a horrible person. At least grow a little set and call the person out by name. Typical liberal coward.
All you want is respect, respect, respect. You want the gays to have all the respect in the world. That will never happen. Do the rest of us a favor and keep your stupid, ignorant, adolescent thoughts to yourself.
Grace
June 26, 2011
You tell me to “grow a little set and call the person out by name”. First of all, why would I do that? Who the person is doesn’t matter, it’s what she said. I wouldn’t be so mean as to publicly name this person. And that doesn’t make me a coward. But ironically, you label yourself as “anonymous”. Fortunately for me, the comment that is sent to my email includes YOUR email, so I know EXACTLY who this is (and HEY! I recognize the last name!).
Where do I get my facts? http://www.gallup.com/poll/147662/first-time-majority-americans-favor-legal-gay-marriage.aspx “For First Time, Majority of Americans Favor Legal Gay Marriage”. There ya go.
Yeah, I do want respect for gays. Just like lots of other people. And I am going to express my views on it. Just like lots of other people. If you don’t like it, then don’t read my blog. Easy enough.
Do you expect me to take your comment seriously? You call what I write “meaningless and pointless drivel”. That is not even constructive. It is immature.
So if you don’t have anything constructive and mature to say to me, do ME a favor and keep your thoughts to yourself. Thank you.
Anonymous
June 26, 2011
Most “writers” can handle criticism and or opposing views. Sorry you can’t.
Grace
June 26, 2011
HA! I can handle criticism and/or opposing views just fine. There have been several comments on this blog with criticism and opposing views. What did I do? Did I delete those comments? Absolutely not. I replied to them respectfully. I am going to be JUST FINE as a writer, thank you very much. Most “people” can handle someone else who is straightforward and adamant about her views. Sorry you can’t.
short little rebel
July 1, 2011
How about some respect for the Baby Americans, little girl? What about their rights?
btw: do you miss your Daddy? You never answered that.
CSI
June 27, 2011
Funny how every one here is worried about Gays getting married but people don’t have their own shit together. Don’t understand how most men don’t mind having a three way with two woman or for some down low brothas one man and one woman. All you looser’s get with it. Worry about your own disfunctional live’s and not others.
Grace
June 27, 2011
I’m not sure if you are siding with me or against me. But anyway, I see your point as somewhat valid. Because there are in fact people who ARE trying to prevent gays from getting married, that’s why we need to fight for gay rights. Imagine if someone told YOU that you couldn’t get married for some reason. You’d want people to fight for you too! But ultimately, I wish EVERYONE would stop worrying about gays getting married. Just let them! And like you say, we should worry about our own dysfunctional lives instead of getting so involved in the lives of others and trying to restrict the rights of others. Thanks for the comment.
CSI
June 27, 2011
Not against it at all. Have two lesbian sisters and an aunt. So I grew up around the life style. I support the right for gay marriage. I don’t care for marriage in general but if that’s what someone wants to do then so let them.
Grace
June 27, 2011
Good to hear
thanks again for commenting. As you can see I get enough negative responses. It’s nice to get a positive comment for a change!
short little rebel
July 1, 2011
I would do just that if kids weren’t involved. They have equal rights two. Gays should have civil unions and all the legal protections they offer. They shouldn’t be allowed to adopt a kid and be denied a father FOREVER. Or a mother. It’s not fair. If gays stuck to ‘their own shit’, then I would be quiet as a church mouse. Unfortunately, they need to drag kids into it.
By the way, I don’t think babies should be adopted to “men having a three way with two woman or for some down low brothas one man and one woman” either. Do you?
Jacquelyn
June 28, 2011
Oh come on, I know most realize that “marriage” really isn’t the real issue at hand. Gay people are seeking validation, not just from the government, but from the world. To put it in simple terms, they want the world to say, “it’s okay to be gay”.
Grace
June 28, 2011
Yeah, I absolutely agree with you. But I think a lot of people are taking the middle ground though and saying, yeah I’m perfectly okay with you being gay, but not okay with you getting married. So in that sense, it sort of is about marriage. But at the same time, you’re correct…the right to marry is a symbol of respect and equality, and that’s what gays are ultimately aiming for.
Jacquelyn
June 28, 2011
Unfornuately, that’s something that I know I won’t be ever to say. I support equality for all, but I could never say it’s okay to be gay. To me gay is just a state of confusion that some awaken from while others succumb to it.
Grace
June 28, 2011
I don’t think being gay is a state of confusion at all. That’s a pretty awful statement in my eyes. It’s sad that so many people take forever to come to terms with the fact that even if someone doesn’t fit the “mold” it doesn’t mean they aren’t normal.
short little rebel
July 1, 2011
Jacquelyn, they want more than ‘recognition’. They want to adopt and co-opt babies. That’s where I must draw the line. Sorry, Gracey.
Grace, why don’t you care about babies?
Ariando
July 4, 2011
I should think that straight ex-spouses of gays who cam out after marriage would be a great advocacy group for gay marriage. Wouldn’t the heteros rather have the gays out of their dating pool?
short little rebel
July 4, 2011
Funny, but I’m not sure what you mean. Gay people who are confused can make mistakes by marrying. This doesn’t make it a case to legalize gay marriage, does it?
Why aren’t gays satisfied by civil unions? This gives them all rights to control and protect their money, health care, inheritance, etc- equal to those in marriage. If this is where gays stood, I would say, “more power to ‘em”. Love, be happy.
BUT. They do not stop there. They need the word ‘marriage’ which they know steps directly on the toes of Christians and other religious groups. Further, they want gay adoption, which is where I must draw the line. It is not fair to legalize child abuse, which the permanent denial of either a mother or a father to a heterosexual child would entail. IF gay marriage included a clause that FOREVER forbade gay adoption, I could accept it. But you know it wouldn’t.